Last night I had Tyrese's song "Lately" in my head. You know, the one that goes "have I told you I love you lately?" Well I don't know how this happened but I managed to harpoon on the word "love" and went into this deep spiral of thought and research into what love really is. =/ You should have seen me. I had my Bible out, my journal was in my lap, the web was up, and tons of Bible literature were scattered around me on the bed. Let me tell you, a girl surely knows how to research when she's motivated! Ha! Anyway, with all my research, I came to one important question.
Let me give you some background. There are four types of love according to the scriptures. There's storagé which is familial love, then you have philía which is friendly love, éros which is romantic love, and finally agape which is that all encompassing, greatest type of love. The very principle of love itself. The love that Jesus has for us. The love that is more important than the others. You know.. Christian love. When in relationships, a lot of people distinguish between loving someone and being in love with someone. Because there is a difference right? Or maybe not. I'm not sure how I feel about the terminology now-a-days. When I was younger, I was all into the idea of falling in love - that sweeping emotional, sentimental, head over heels notion where the sun rises with his smile and when he's not near I cease to breathe. I know you all know what I'm talking about. lol. But as I get older, I realize that's not true love. If I were to pursue a relationship based on romantic love, the chances are that it won't last. Love is not a feeling. It's deeper than that. It's long-suffering, kind, patient, rejoices with truth, faithful, bears all things, endures all things, etc. You guys know the scripture. (1 Corinthians 13:4-8) Feelings change. Éros comes and goes. Especially when's there are arguments to be had. Feel me?
So here's my question. Considering everything I've stated above, in order to marry someone, is falling in love all that important? If you have that crazy agape love for someone - the love that never fails and endures all, it's faithful and respectful, it cherishes and nutures - is it necessary to have romantic love? Of course the perfect answer is to have both, but I'm asking the more difficult question. Do you have to love (agape) AND be in love (éros) with someone to marry them? Would you consider marrying someone that you simply loved without all the romance present? Perhaps the romance will come right? I feel like people used to do this all the time in arranged marriages. But what about in today's society? How important is the romance, the stuff that love songs are made out of, the goosebumps that you get when the love overwhelms you...?
Hit me!
22 comments:
Very good question. My opinion is that sure agape love can sustain a marriage, but won't there always be that void? That emptiness where eros is supposed to be? When you've experienced that romantic love and then all of sudden it's gone...it will be a shock. and if it never comes back, it'll be like suffering. And that suffering could ultimately can put a strain on a marriage.
I think it's more about happiness. You can have agape love and not be happy, right? The Romance keeps the marriage happy. I think you need to have both. To live a happy, healthy marriage. Now, if your just wanting a LONG marriage and perhaps you've never experience eros, it could be the way to go.
I need both.
"You can have agape love and not be happy, right? The Romance keeps the marriage happy." Hmm... That's a good question/point.
I've been thinking about this due to a book i'm reading about women in Saudi Arabia. While these women have been exposed to western influences in many regards most still hold true to the traditions of their people including "arranged" marriages. I put arranged in quotes, b/c men have the option of declining the families choice for them, and to some extent the women can too, but they only see each other once, once it had been decided that they will marry, and they don't reunite until the day of the wedding ceremony. Granted some women are not happy, some marriages are in fact a trial to endure, but many also bloom into romantic love...b/c there isn't that focus on the fairytale idea of love, its more about responsibility, commitment, loyalty...and from that can spring a much more solid enduring love than I think we experience in the west.
Here "love" is the be all end all, its the most important facet, but in realtiy its not. Romance, passion, lust, butterflies in tummies...all fade. A sense of responsibility, loyalty and commitment to me based on the vows you made before your God, your responsibility to your God, and your faithfulness to your word...brings you home at night, and keeps you from walking out when we fight. I think it has a greater effect on decision making then romance ever has.
I agree with your assessment too jenn. So would you enter a marriage without the romance and passion facet that everyone wants? Do you think you would be happy?
I don't know about everyone else, but I need both! I can have agape love with a friend.
Good post.
Hmmmm. . . Well, before I give my take on an answer, I've got a question.
Out of the four types of love you mentioned, which is the kind that Christ talked about doing to your neighbor as yourself? That is the second greatest commandment, right? The one that combines with (paraphrased) "Love the Almighty with all of your being" to sum up the law and the prophets?
Well, I'm going to nix eros love as the type Christ is talking about. I'm going to nix philia and storage too, because he also says something along the lines of "even sinners/the unrighteous love those who love them." Would we love our families in the way that we do if there was not a certain degree of reciprocity or at least that feeling of committment by association? Friendship is definitely based on reciprocity, and if we're supposed to love our enemies I'm going to guess that reciprocity of that love doesn't go into that equation.
I don't believe that association is a requirement for the type of love we're commanded to give to everyone either, because then it's conditional. It's based upon something that's important to us. But the love we're suppposed to have for others shouldn't be based on what's important to us.
He put it simply: ". . .as yourself." So that only leaves on option: AGAPE!!! We're supposed to love everyone unconditionally. Not based on sensual pleasure, family association, or the reciprocity of friendship. Even for people who "hate themselves" or "haven't learned to love themselves". . . even for these people, our basic instinct is self preservation and doing what feels right for us or what we need. Regardless of the situation. It's our instinct to make ourselves the priority.
So we're all obliged to make everyone else the priority.
That said. . . let me answer your actual question, lol!
I'll try to keep this brief.
Seeing as how we're supposed to love everyone unconditionally, I think eros is necessary on the marriage level. It's a type of love that's meant to be particular to that scenario. Just like sex is supposed to be saved for marriage, I'm starting to believe that the lovey dovey stuff that comes before it as well. I hate to say it, but in light of recent events, Mrs. Dunn's recommendation to not date AT ALL is starting to make sense.
I think it's one of those things where if we do things the Almighty's way we get the ideal situation, but few people are really patient enough to wait for the ideal, so we go through all sorts of drama until we finally get it and do things His way.
Especially in our society. We want to be like everyone else when we see relationships and sex blasted at us 24/7. We're taught to believe that it's just how you do things. "Be ye not conformed to this world. . ." Romans 12:1-2 You know the rest.
Okay, so I'm not doing a great job of keeping this short, but I haven't stopped to think or break since I started typing this, so I'm thinking this is the Almighty working through me.
Okay, now I stopped, but there was a point I wanted to make before I got into the explanation of why I'm not being brief:
I believe that eros and romance are reserved for the person the Almighty has for us, at the right time. I DON'T believe that, contrary to my romantic disposition and EVERYTHING I've wanted over the years, that the cuddling, kissy face, you are my world, etc. etc. should be involved until the commitment to be married has already been made. Yes, I'm talking about engagement.
May sound a little extreme, but think about how much that stuff clouds your judgement and how much harder it makes to pull away when you realize they're not the one. Especially the physical contact.
They say "You may kiss the bride" for a reason.
If the attraction is there, it will only grow as the friends become closer and become able to imagine a life together. Trust in the Almighty that the romantic stuff will be cool. If He intends someone for us, then we better believe they'll make us happiest, which may or may not include romantics.
Something tells me though, that for people like you and me, the Almighty's going to bring us fellow romantics. Either way it comes down to trusting Him and doing things His way. I wonder how much drama has to happen before a person gets that? lol
So, yeah, I think there will be special eros feelings for the potential spouse, but some of the ways those feelings are expressed should be held off.
Well, that's my 22,222 cents. Enjoy!
Peace,
Kep.
P.S.: Remember that no human being should "be our world" or "everything" to us. That's the Almighty's place, and His alone. Your parents were joking around once, but saying something very true: "We're not worried about cheating, not because we're worried about the other person, but because we don't want to get in trouble with HIM!" I'm sure their love for each other also plays a huge part in that decision, but the important point is that when the Almighty is the first in both people's lives. . . and I mean FIRST (not an option, not A priority, but THE priority) then what can come against them?
Okay, 2 more cents after reading other comments and responses. I guess the question to me would be where does the romance come from before engagement.
I'm not saying romantic things couldn't happen, but it really depends on what type. I think that if a friend of yours whom you're trying to build something with knows that you love dance and have a thing for Broadway (I think the latter's true) then they could surprise you with a trip to NY to see the Anniversary performance of fame or something.
Bad example, but you get what I'm saying. It doesn't require cuddling, or kissing, but it shows that he cares about you enough to go make you feel special, and may even cause the nausea like symptoms that so many romantics crave. :-)
My point is, there are other ways to see that passion/romantic that still work in the realm of close friend, so that if things don't work out, you can see past the lovey doveyness to make the right decision.
Ultimately we have to trust in the Almighty to put us with someone who has the things that we want that we shouldn't find out before marriage.
I hope I'm making sense.
Peace,
Kep.
I am totally feeling you Kep, moreso than my mother's thoughts on this topic! *Gasp!* Of course, you're providing me with an answer that's tougher than nails but how else do you do it "right"? I think what sticks out to me the most is that if you're supposed to have agape love for everyone, what makes your relationship with your fiance' or significant other different? It's eros.
I think everyone's views on what romance is are different. Some may think romance is all about candlelight dinners and kissing under the stars. But others may feel that it's about a trip to NY to see Fame like you suggested. To some, it's a picnic in the park and to others it's a weekend of intimacy in the hotel room. Get my flow? When I picture romance, I think of movies like Serendipity where the two lovers are standing on the ice looking into each other's eyes and all of a sudden snowflakes start to fall. I think that's somewhere in between the two pair of extreme cases I listed above. It's hard to think of a trip to NY or a picnic in the park as pure romance, but you're right. It can be!
Overall, I want an intense connection with my partner. I don't need special romantic occasions/dinners/moments or anything, just a heartfelt connection.
Good comments everyone!
i couldn't read kep's response...is there a way to print out these comments? ! LOL Sheesh!!!
You can't? Hmm. That's weird. I'll forward them to you.
I WANTED to read Kep's response but the lenght of it blocked me from doing so. Aw MAN.
Eros can bring you into a marriage but its agape love that will sustain the marriage. Eros will eventually die. Agape will remain forever. And when you have agape love (even when eros dies) you will still adore that person because that's what agape is. loving the unlovable.
pooh you're so silly! lol.
And I agree. You wrapped that up quite nicely. BUT would you go into marriage WITHOUT eros? That's the question.
no, i meant I can't read kep's comment because my eyes cant focus for that long...i needed to print it out! LOL...and read it at my leisure...like a book. LOL!
Agape love is the key. its that unconditional love, that respect that committment, that connection that is a bond that is untouchable, because its based in that unconditional love that Christ had for us...i don't need flowers and candy and all of that other stuff, sure its nice and all, but without that true connection what's the point...I just want my bestest in my partner...
and kep's right, no one should be your "world", that's GODs place...just like us women have to learn NOT to submit to anyone other than GOD until we have a husband, and then we submit to our husbands because he submits to GOD...
keeping oursleves wrapped in GODs love and letting him guide us, will guide us to the right relationship, if we keep him first we learn to understand the importance of being faithful and committed...that right there keeps us understanding that agape love is the real foundation of any true relationship...
being IN love with someone doesn't mean that its not agape or romantic, being IN love can be both...and i think it takes that IN part that keeps you there
that's my take on it...
i also want to add that love, relationships are HARD WORK, not in the sense that its hard being with person, but in the sense that you are both working at it to get it "right"
growth with another person doesn't just HAPPEN over night...keeping that committment isn't hard when you have that open communication and the foundation of agape love, which again, is found in having he foundation in Christ...
i just wanted to remind us all that its not always a "walk in the park" even when it is based on unconditional love because we are all human and we all fall short at times, but its that agape love that keeps you hanging in there because you understand that...
again that's just my interpretation of the situation...
Gotta have both! I think the main reason the divorce rate is so high because we dont. Too many people have one inkling of eros or one inkling of agape and settle. If we held out longer, I feel relationship would have more longevity.
@ kacey: LOL!!!
@ Jendi: Nope, I don't think I would.... unless i'm like 50 and looking for comapionship. sounds bad but some people do it.
Okay, I'm finally ready to comment...sorry but I think this is gonna be really long. LOL.
In my church we had an entire series done by our pastor about love and relationships and all he spoke about was agape love. I think he got it right for the most part because he was speaking of marriage and a husband and wife loving one another the way God loves us all. However he didn't talk about the dating and/or courtship part and I think that's really the part of the relationship that is the cause for the question. In my mind agape is that unconditonal love that is immeasurable and in most cases we never attain. Gods love for us isn't even something that most of us can understand and I think (in my opinion) that is because it is a combination of the other 3 types of love combined into one. So when you ask me if you need both agape and eros I almost want to answer that by saying if you have agape you will have eros. To me it is a matter of progression in the relationship. You aren't (ARE NOT) gonna take the time and energy to embark on an attempt at a relationship if you have no romantic interest in the person. That's meeting some dude you don't know and have no interest in on that level and deciding that since he is a "good man" you will marry him tomorrow. That just isn't gonna happen. Now I don't think that you have to openly express that romantic interest (which will become eros love) as much as others may but it will be present for you. The romantic aspects of the relationship are what fuel your connection to that new mate. It is the way you express you feelings and emotions for one another. At the same time as the eros love begins to grow in the relationship the philia love will be growing also. In my opinion this love is where the trusting, caring, and compassion of the relationship stem from. As you share more with that person and spend more time they become your best friend and you trust them fully and care for them genuinely. At the peak of both eros and philia is when people feel like they are "in love". It's like all you need is that person because you are emotionally and sometimes physically attached to that person, you get and give attention and want to do the little things, you will go out of your way to make them happy (all eros), you have shared so much personally that they know you, you really want the best for them, and trust that they will be there to provide all these things for you (all philia). These things are why you always hear people say they want their mate to be their best friend. You don't really want to marry KC you just want the man you marry to grow into the best friend you have ever had and that love is philia. To me the next part of the progression is the part that most people get wrong and why a lot of marriages end...you have to wait for storage` love to enter the picture before you walk down the aisle. People fall "in love" and think that's it, it can't get any better so they jump into the marriage when they are missing that last thing needed, that glue that will make them last over the years. We all know that the romantic stuff dies down and we know that best friends can change but what love lasts longer than the love you have for family (in this life on earth). Your family puts you thru some tough times...tougher than anyone ever could because you care so much to them. Not only that they are normally the only ones who are always, without hesitation, willing to walk with you thru the struggles and the good times in life. Until marriage it is normally the deepest connection you can have with someone other than God. So basically what I'm saying is that most people don't get it...when you marry someone you make that person a part of your FAMILY and for you that is the most important part of your family now. That person has to be the #1 person that you can live thru struggles and get a strong relationship with just like I with your blood family. This person is now ahead of (on the totum pole) all those family members that have put you thru hell and you still love to death. You husband/wife IS YOUR FAMILY and if you don't grow into that storage` love before you marry them it may never come and what it takes to survive the ups and downs of marriage won't be there to hold you together.
I think that this is when you have reached that agape love...when you have all three aspects. I'm not saying that the romanticism won't have it's ups and downs and I'm not saying you won't ever feel betraying or untrusting of that person and we all know you can feel like you hate your family at times but all three of those loves are present in your heart. Even if we have trouble expressing them to one another at times.
I know this is alot but let me know what you think about what I'm saying. Get back at me.
I don't know if I agree in the idea of the Almighty's love for us including eros, but I feel what you're saying. I also wanted to make the point that there can be (and have been) instances where an attraction is not necessary to start this process. I think when a friend is on point and there's that connection it naturally progresses to attraction. I've become attracted to people I didn't initially even find physically attractive.
Common values, interests, place in life, and time spent together is almost a formula when you think about it! It's amazing how rare it is to have all of those factors at once. At least on the level where an attraction to form like that.
I know there are other factors, but I think values kind of ties into those. (i.e.: a woman wanting a good provider and leader, and a man fitting that profile wanting the qualities that a woman with the intelligence to value those things.)
Peace,
Kep.
For the question of do you need eros to get married. . . I think it depends on one's reasons/beliefs for the purpose of marriage. If you want to marry to "have help with the bills, sleep next to someone, etc" all the superficial things, then no eros is not important. But if you marry for the biblical reasons. . .then yes eros is important but I do belief it would be encompassed in the agape love that would exist between me and my husband.
I think the problem with a lot marriages today is that many just like the idea of marriage. Most don't know or want any of things that come with it.
I had and still have agape love for the man I got three weeks away from marrying. I will always love him no matter what, but just having that dep sense of undying, unending love for someone isn't enough to sustain a lifetime with someone. There has to be something else. Eros love was missing from my relationship, and it ached. Like, physically hurt... because I was about to marry someone for whom my love was undying and unending, but the passion, the romance, the giddiness, the overwhelming feeling of love and longing were absent from the equation. It's possible to marry someone based on agape love alone, yes. But it's a huge sacrifice, and a painful one at that. Although I love this man unequivocally to this very day, the decision not to marry him was the right one. There must be both types of love present and flourishing, in my opinion.
@ Miss Alisa: That's a perfect example of what I was saying.
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